Space & Astronomy/Space and Astronomy (October 1993).iso/mac/TEXT/SPACEDIG/V15_2/V15NO283.TXT

Internet Message Format | 1993-07-13 | 36KB

Date: Mon,  5 Oct 92 05:00:05
From: Space Digest maintainer <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Subject: Space Digest V15 #283
To: Space Digest Readers
Precedence: bulk


Space Digest                Mon,  5 Oct 92       Volume 15 : Issue 283

Today's Topics:
                   another sad anniversary (3 msgs)
                             BLACK HOLES
                     FAQ -- USNO/BBS is Useless!
                       galileo antenna status?
                            Monetary Magic
               NASA Daily News for 10/02/92 (Forwarded)
        Russia's OPERATIONAL Starwars Defense System (2 msgs)
                           V-2 anniversary
Von Braun -- Hero, Villain, or Both? (was Re: Controversy over V-2) (2 msgs)
                         what use is Freedom?

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Date: 4 Oct 92 18:21:12 GMT
From: FRANK NEY <tnc!m0102>
Subject: another sad anniversary
Newsgroups: sci.space

How about posting the full address of the DSES so that I can contact
them?  Boulder CO just won't work fast enough.
--
The Next Challenge - Public Access Unix in Northern Va. - Washington D.C.
703-803-0391 To log in for trial and account info.

------------------------------

Date: 4 Oct 92 18:22:23 GMT
From: FRANK NEY <tnc!m0102>
Subject: another sad anniversary
Newsgroups: sci.space

Is there any way to turn ALSEP back on once we get the ground station
set up properly?  Or was it a no-return type of prodedure?
--
The Next Challenge - Public Access Unix in Northern Va. - Washington D.C.
703-803-0391 To log in for trial and account info.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 22:00:29 GMT
From: Pat <[e-mail]>
Subject: another sad anniversary
Newsgroups: sci.space

I think the canadians are about to toss out (Shut down)
an old radio telescope somewhere in cetral canada.
maybe they could toss in a little CNRC money,  equip
it to run magellan and take over magellan after cycle 4.
hey guys,  get ytour own planetary mission for a few tens of
millions, plus have a DSN compatible station.

------------------------------

Date: 3 Oct 92 14:42:00 GMT
From: Sasha Degner <[e-mail]>
Subject: BLACK HOLES
Newsgroups: sci.space

Black holes are extremely fascinating seeing that so many theories have
been developed about them. I have a couple of questions about them and
if anyone knows anything in answer to my questions please inform me.

1) What exactly are black holes?
2) Is there any truth in the theory that they may be created by alien
life forms?
3) Is there a black hole close to our galaxy?


--
INTERNET: [e-mail]
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       (catpe.alt.za)   [phone] HST or [phone], V32bis & HST.

------------------------------

Date: 4 Oct 92 23:37:23 GMT
From: FRANK NEY <tnc!m0102>
Subject: FAQ -- USNO/BBS is Useless!
Newsgroups: sci.space

To whomever maintains the sci.space FAQ:

You may as well drop the listing for the USNO BBS.  I attempted a call
tonight.  What I got on a 1200B connect was a request for a 'modem
password.'  No explanation, no registration info, no nothing.  I'm not
even sure if the USNO is even involved with that phone number posted.

As far as I am concerned, information has no use and should be removed
from the FAQ for that reason.

Frank Ney N4ZHG EMT-P  LPVa NRA ILA GOA CCRTKBA "M-O-U-S-E"
Commandant and Acting President, Northern Virginia Free Militia
Send e-mail for an application and more information
----------------------------------------------------------------
"...I am opposed to all attempts to license or restrict the arming of
individuals...I consider such laws a violation of civil liberty,
subversive of democratic political institutions, and self-defeating
in their purpose."
        - Robert Heinlein, in a 1949 letter concerning "Red Planet"
--
The Next Challenge - Public Access Unix in Northern Va. - Washington D.C.
703-803-0391 To log in for trial and account info.

------------------------------

Date: 5 Oct 92 07:06:23 GMT
From: Ron Baalke <[e-mail]>
Subject: galileo antenna status?
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Cameron Newham) writes...
>I have been off the net for 6 weeks.  What is currently happening with the
>attempts to unstick the Galileo antenna ?  I haven't heard anything about
>it in the papers so I assume it is still stuck.
>
>Has there been any success with the heating/cooling treatment?  What happened
>with the attempts to use the deployment motors?  Last I heard was that there
>was a small amount of movement when they were pulsed.  Has this been retried?

There has been three tests done so far with the two deployment motors (DDA).
The first test marked where the motors were stalling.  The second and
third tests turned on the motors for short durations, and the results
have indicated that the motors have turned the ballscrew a little bit
further on both occasions.  There will be one more DDA test this month, and
then the 2000 pulse DDA test in December after the Earth flyby.
     ___    _____     ___
    /_ /|  /____/ \  /_ /|     Ron Baalke         | [e-mail]
    | | | |  __ \ /| | | |     Jet Propulsion Lab |
 ___| | | | |__) |/  | | |__   M/S 525-3684 Telos | Einstein's brain is stored
/___| | | |  ___/    | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | in a mason jar in a lab
|_____|/  |_|/       |_____|/                     | in Wichita, Kansas.

------------------------------

Date: 4 Oct 92 17:13:00 GMT
From: Jay Denebeim <[e-mail]>
Subject: Monetary Magic
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]>, Thomas Clarke writes:

> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Henry Spencer)
> writes:
> > The way to handle this is to think capitalist, not socialist.  Sell the
> > Pershings at a competitive market price for sounding rockets of that size.
> > Use the revenues to fund a one-time-only launch-grant program for the
> > experimenters:  show your payload ready for launch, get a voucher good
> > for $XXX toward one launch, first come first served, until the money from
> > the Pershings runs out.  Same net result, but without the destructive
> > side effects on the industry.
>
> Run that by a little slower.
> A sells to B.  A gives money to C.  C buys from B.
> B has net near zero (buys and sells).
> C has net near zero (receives and buys).
> A has net near zero (gives and sells).
> Amazing.  Of course the taxpayer paid for the item in
> the first place.  But then the taxpayer received good value
> in the form of military security :-?

That's not how I read it.  I think Henry was saying to use the money from
selling the Pershings to pay for orbital, not sounding, missions.

--

 |_o_o|\\
 |. o.| || The           Jay Denebeim
 | .  | ||  Software
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 |    |//        Address: UUCP:     duke!wolves!deepthot!jay
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------------------------------

Date: 4 Oct 92 21:23:06 GMT
From: Chris Jones <[e-mail]>
Subject: NASA Daily News for 10/02/92 (Forwarded)
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]>, henry@zoo (Henry Spencer) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Peter E. Yee) writes:
>>... MacLean will be the third
>>astronaut from the CSA to have flown on a shuttle mission.  The first,
>>Patrick Baudry, flew on Discovery in June 1985 on the STS-51G mission.
>>Roberta Bondar was next, flying on last January's STS-42 mission, again
>>aboard Discovery.  (On Wednesday, Daily News erroneously reported
>>MacLean would be the second CSA astronaut to fly.)
>
>Okay, now it's Marc Garneau's turn to be annoyed by botched NASA reporting.
>Maybe on the third try they'll get it right.

Baudry, as I recall, was the second French astronaut, and the first to be
launched by the US.

I grew up tremendously impressed by NASA as a can-do, nearly super-humanly
competent organization.  Seeing this, and the error-riddled press release
"honoring" John Young from several days ago, and various other official
releases which garble reality brings home quite clearly that this NASA is not
that NASA.  It's both sad and infuriating.

--
Chris Jones    [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 4 Oct 92 18:00:08 GMT
From: Jay Denebeim <[e-mail]>
Subject: Russia's OPERATIONAL Starwars Defense System
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.conspiracy

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:

>
>
>
>                  RUSSIA'S OPERATIONAL STAR WARS DEFENSE SYSTEM
>
>                In February 1992, Russian President Boris Yeltsin
>           proposed to the United States and the United Nations a global
>           defense shield (with "Star Wars"-type weapons) BASED ON
>           RUSSIAN TECHNOLOGY.
>
>                Some people might wonder what the "backward" Russians
>           could possibly have that would be of value for the S.D.I.
>           research and development program.
>
>                The little-known TRUTH is that the Russians started
>           deploying an OPERATIONAL "Star Wars" defense system in
>           September 1977, and it has greatly grown and improved since
>           that time.  It is a SPACE TRIAD built around CHARGED-PARTICLE
>           BEAM and NEUTRON PARTICLE BEAM WEAPONS.
>
>                In this article I will describe the Russian system as it
>           developed from 1977 to 1983, and give several examples of how
>           it was used during that period.  But first I will try to
>           convince readers of the credibility of my main source of
>           information about it.
>
>                My main source is articles published in a weekly
>           legislative newspaper, WISCONSIN REPORT (WR), of Brookfield,
>           Wisconsin, (P.O. Box 45, zip 53005), written by the late Dr.
>           Peter David Beter, a well-respected Washington, DC attorney,
>           Doctor of Jurisprudence, and expert and consultant in
>           international law, finance, and intelligence, who received
>           much of his information from associates in the CIA and other
>           intelligence groups of other countries who disapproved of
>           many of the things happening or being planned behind the
>           scenes.  They believed that at least limited public exposure
>           might delay and ultimately prevent the worst of those things,
>           such as NUCLEAR WAR and NATIONAL DICTATORSHIP, from taking
>           place.
>
>                Dr. Beter started appearing on local radio and TV talk
>           shows, but soon found himself being BANNED from them, as a
>           result of government THREATS to cancel broadcast licenses.
>           So he started producing monthly one-hour cassette tapes and
>           sending them to a growing list of subscribers.  From June 21,
>           1975 until November 3, 1982 he recorded eighty "Dr. Beter
>           Audio Letters" plus eight "Audio Books" and three special
>           topic tapes.  On September 1, 1977 Wisconsin Report started
>           publishing transcripts of those tapes.
>
>                Based on information from his sources, Dr. Beter
>           PREDICTED the bombing of the Marines in Beirut A FULL YEAR
>           BEFORE IT HAPPENED, WARNING that the U.S. Pentagon and the
>           Israeli Mossad were CONSPIRING TO DELIBERATELY ARRANGE IT in
>           order to try to get Americans angry at the Arabs and generate
>           public support for PLANNED military action against them.  He
>           reported the impending assassination of Anwar Saddat of Egypt
>           SIX DAYS BEFORE IT HAPPENED.  And Dr. Beter predicted what he
>           called the "retirement" of Leonid Brezhnev one week before
>           Brezhnev officially "died" (note that the word "retirement"
>           was used for the TERMINATION OF REPLICANTS in the 1982 movie
>           "Blade Runner"), and his quick replacement with Andropov
>           which occurred only three days after the "death" of Brezhnev,
>           to the surprise of all government and media analysts.
>           Subscription application and renewal forms for Dr. Beter's
>           tapes would usually say, "Subscribe to the Dr. Beter Audio
>           Letter and watch the news start making sense."
>
>
>
>           RUSSIA'S SPACE TRIAD OF STAR WARS WEAPONS
>
>                In September 1977 the Russians started launching MANNED
>           killer satellites, called "COSMOS INTERCEPTORS", armed with
>           CHARGED-PARTICLE BEAM weapons, into earth orbit, (12-15-77
>           WR). By April 1978 there were about THREE DOZEN of them, and
>           they had FINISHED DESTROYING all American spy and early
>           warning satellites, (5-18-78 WR).
>
>                On September 27, 1977, in what Dr. Beter called "THE
>           BATTLE OF THE HARVEST MOON", a Cosmos Interceptor in Earth
>           orbit used a NEUTRON-PARTICLE BEAM to wipe out a secret
>           American laser-beam base nearing operational status in
>           Copernicus Crater on the Moon, (11-3-77 WR).  The Russians
>           quickly deployed their own military bases on the Moon, the
>           second leg of their space triad, starting on October 4, 1977,
>           with seven EXTREMELY POWERFUL charged-particle beam weapons
>           BASES on the near side of the Moon and three support bases on
>           the far side, (2-9-78 WR).
>
>                The first test of the Moon base weapons occurred on
>           November 19, 1977, ironically at about the same time as the
>           release of the first "Star Wars" movie with its "death star"
>           weapon.  The Russians were aiming at the eye of a cyclone
>           near India.  But they miscalculated the deflection of the
>           beam by the Earth's magnetic field, and the beam struck the
>           ocean too close to the shore causing a TIDAL WAVE that killed
>           many people, (2-9-78 WR).  A blast of charged-particle beams
>           from two or more of the Russian Moon bases fired in quick
>           succession would create the DESTRUCTIVE EFFECT OF A HYDROGEN
>           BOMB on its target.
>
>                The third leg of Russia's triad of space weapons is the
>           "COSMOSPHERES".  The first-generation Cosmospheres were
>           weapons platforms that were ELECTRO-GRAVITIC (could hover
>           against gravity), ATOMIC POWERED, horizontally positioned by
>           rocket thrusters, somehow invisible to radar beyond about 40
>           miles (perhaps from a radar-absorbing coating), armed with
>           CHARGED-PARTICLE BEAM weapons (at least a hundred times less
>           powerful than those in the Moon bases), equipped with
>           "PSYCHO-ENERGETIC RANGE FINDING" (PRF) which tunes in to the
>           actual ATOMIC SIGNATURE of a target or object and canNOT be
>           jammed, and some of them were also armed with microwave
>           BRAIN-SCRAMBLING equipment.
>
>                In late 1977 and early 1978, there was a strange rash of
>           giant AIR BOOMS along the east coast of the United States and
>           elsewhere.  These air booms were NEVER satisfactorily
>           explained, by either the government, the scientific
>           establishment, or the news media.  They could NOT be
>           positively identified with any particular Super Sonic
>           Transport plane (SST) or other aircraft, and indeed they were
>           MUCH LOUDER than aircraft sonic booms.  The giant airbooms
>           were actually caused by Russian Cosmospheres firing CHARGED-
>           PARTICLE BEAMS down into the atmosphere in a DEFOCUSED MODE
>           (spread out) for the purpose of announcing their presence to
>           the WAR-MONGERS in the United States Pentagon, (2-9-78 WR).
>
>
>                The main purpose of any "Star Wars" defense system is to
>           protect a country against nuclear attack.  During the weekend
>           of January 20, 1980, Russian Cosmospheres accomplished such a
>           mission.  A NUCLEAR FIRST STRIKE against Russia by the then
>           BOLSHEVIK-CONTROLLED United States was being started with a
>           total of 82 special secret aircraft that can sneak up to a
>           country's shoreline under water, surface, change
>           configuration, take off, and fly at treetop level to their
>           targets.  Dr. Beter describes part of the action in his Audio
>           Letter #53, recorded on January 21, 1980: "At that point the
>           real action got under way, in the Caspian Sea and off
>           northern Norway.  The Subcraft, with Israeli pilots, were on
>           their way.  They were traveling under water on the first legs
>           of their attack missions....
>
>           "Late Saturday night, Washington time, a coded signal was
>           flashed to the Subcraft to continue as planned.  By that
>           time, the northern contingent of Subcraft were in the White
>           Sea.  The southern contingent had reached the north end of
>           the Caspian Sea.  It was already daylight, Sunday morning,
>           the 20th, for the Subcraft contingents.  Their orders were to
>           wait out the day under water, out of sight; then, after
>           nightfall, they were to continue their steady approach to get
>           close to their targets.  The Subcraft were maintaining strict
>           radio silence.  They were also deep enough under water to be
>           invisible from the air to either the eye or radar, yet they
>           were also hugging the shoreline in water too shallow for
>           Russian sonar to pick them up.  And their infrared signatures
>           were negligible as the result of extensive development.  In
>           short, by the standards of Western technology, they were
>           undetectable.  But in AUDIO LETTER No. 42 I revealed Russia's
>           master secret weapon.  It is called "Psycho-energetic Range
>           Finding" or PRF.  It is unlike sonar and similar techniques.
>           PRF tunes in to the actual atomic signature of a target, and
>           there is no method known by which PRF can be jammed.
>
>                "By deploying their Navy to the Arabian Sea, the
>           Russians are pretending to be fooled by the Bolshevik
>           distraction with the aircraft carriers.  In this way they
>           encouraged the Bolsheviks to launch the Subcraft toward their
>           targets.  They waited until the Subcraft were far away from
>           their bases and out of sight of the Bolsheviks, who are
>           directing the American first-strike operation.  But the whole
>           time they were being tracked by Cosmospheres overhead using
>           PRF, and shortly after 1:00 A.M. yesterday morning Eastern
>           Standard Time the Cosmospheres began firing their Charged
>           Particle Beam Weapons.  There were 10 Subcraft in the White
>           Sea.  Each disappeared in a blinding blue white water spout
>           of steam, smoke, and fire.  In the north end of the Caspian
>           there were 19 Subcraft--they, too, met the same fate.", (2-7-
>           80 WR).
>
>                The 3rd-generation Russian JUMBO COSMOSPHERES were first
>           deployed in April 1981, in parallel with the first U.S. Space
>           Shuttle mission.  They significantly interfered with that
>           MILITARY mission, in ways which were successfully covered up
>           by NASA using techniques similar to those shown in the movie
>           "Capricorn I", (5-7-81, 5-14-81, and 5-21-81 WR).
>
>                Jumbo Cosmospheres are much larger than the 1st-
>           generation models, and use ELECTROMAGNETIC PROPULSION instead
>           of rocket thrusters to move around.
>
>                For about two years after Dr. Beter stopped recording
>           his Audio Letters in November 1982 (because of heart
>           trouble), his distributor, Audio Books, Inc., published some
>           newsletters titled "NewsALERT", using information passed on
>           to them by Dr. Beter or received directly from his sources.
>           A special supplementary issue, dated March 26, 1984,
>           describes how Russian Jumbo Cosmospheres captured two
>           communication satellites right after launch from U.S. Space
>           Shuttle Mission #10, found anti-satellite (ASAT) missiles
>           mounted on one of them, and dumped both satellites into
>           useless orbits.  NASA had fun TRYING to explain two-in-a-row
>           failures of a highly reliable PAM-D satellite booster.
>
>                Russia's offer to share their "Star Wars" defense system
>           with the rest of the world might also extend to SCIENTIFIC
>           SPACE EXPLORATION.  For example, the United States is
>           planning to send two unmanned flyby and sample-return space
>           missions to a comet.  These missions would cost BILLIONS of
>           dollars, take fifteen years from now to complete, and could
>           FAIL in DOZENS of ways.  A Russian Jumbo Cosmosphere could
>           complete a MANNED version of such a mission in a matter of
>           MONTHS, if they have not already done so, since these
>           Cosmospheres can accelerate continuously.
>
>                Note that the United States has announced a deal to
>           purchase at least one SPACE REACTOR from Russia.  Now you
>           know what the Russians originally developed and used them
>           for.
>
>
>
>                UN-altered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of this
>           IMPORTANT Information is ENCOURAGED.
>
>                                    Robert E. McElwaine
>                                    B.S., Physics and Astronomy, UW-EC
>
>

I think you posted to the wrong newsgroup.  Followups to alt.conspiracy
where this would probably be appreciated more.

------------------------------

Date: 4 Oct 92 20:44:16 GMT
From: Shari L Brooks <[e-mail]>
Subject: Russia's OPERATIONAL Starwars Defense System
Newsgroups: sci.space,alt.conspiracy

Was that for real?

[as in, was it serious; I *know* the content was a fairy tale]

How sad for people who live their lives in constant fear like that.
--
If you blow fire against the wind, take care to not get the smoke in your eyes.
      Big & Growly Dragon-monster        |       [e-mail]
     ------> shari brooks <-------       |       [e-mail]
                             All opinions are my own.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 92 16:37:32 GMT
From: Frank Dahncke <[e-mail]>
Subject: V-2 anniversary
Newsgroups: sci.space

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bruce Watson) writes:

>Trivia question: Which city was targeted and hit by the most number
>of V-2s?

Amsterdam, Holland.

                              Techno
--
| [e-mail] ||| Please do not e-mail from outside Germany ! |
| [e-mail]   / | \  Hardcore ST user ! ====================== |
| Nothing that's real is ever for free, you just have to pay for it sometime. |
|                                       (Al Stewart)                          |

------------------------------

Date: 4 Oct 92 19:18:39 GMT
From: Brian Yamauchi <[e-mail]>
Subject: Von Braun -- Hero, Villain, or Both? (was Re: Controversy over V-2)
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mary Shafer) writes:
>On Sun, 4 Oct 1992 03:33:00 GMT, [e-mail] said:

>> If you really want to press the point and be so high and mighty about it
>> then why did we use the rocket team to build our rockets? Krafft Erike
>> was instrumental in the Atlas design and the Von Braun Team were instrumental
>> in the development of the Redstone, Jupiter, Saturn I and Saturn V.  The
>> rocket team was a spoil of war that we took from the Germans. In past wars
>> the spoils were the wealth of a nation.  The spoils that we took in WWII were
>> the most valuable of all, technology.

>I certainly wouldn't have treated them like mythic heroes, the way we
>did.

I suppose it depends on how you define "hero".

In a way, Von Braun was a lot like Columbus -- he did some
reprehensible things, but he also did some extraordinary things.  Many
people suffered as a direct result of his actions, and yet, through
his vision and force of will he managed to change the course of human
history.

Could we have gotten to the Moon without Von Braun?  Probably.  Would
we have?  I don't know.

I think there were certainly enough smart people in the U.S. to design
a manned lunar mission without the Germans' help, but as readers of
this newsgroup know, having the technical knowledge and ingenuity
alone isn't always enough when dealing with large government projects.
One also needs the ability to drive the project through all of the
political and organizational barriers that arise, and to mobilize an
army of technicians and workers towards a common goal.

Maybe the libertarians are right.  Maybe if the government had stayed
out, private and corporate interests would have already built personal
spacecraft and privately owned moon colonies.  Maybe, maybe not.  But
I do know that Von Braun was one of the leaders who made sure that the
government efforts that did occur achieved what they did -- that we
put a man of the Moon and not just billions of dollars down a rathole.

>> There are many other examples of things that we use and rely on every day
>> that came from that sorry episode in history. No ones hands are clean and
>> to beat this horse without an understanding of the history is to grossly
>> distort reality.

>Are you old enough to remember the Cuban Missile Crisis?  I am.  I was
>in high school and I can remember going to bed not knowing if I'd wake
>up in the morning to an intact country.

>I figure that if I feel like being a moral absolutist, I have the right.

Well, sure, but some of us grew up with Watergate in grade school,
Iran-Contra in college, and a continuous line of government scandals
in between.  I figure if we feel like being cynical about government,
politics, and morality, we have the right... :-)

>Furthermore, I think this attitude of yours that nobody's hands are
>clean so people can't be criticized without an understanding of their
>history is in large part responsible for the decline of modern
>morality.  You have to step up and take responsibility for your actions,
>no matter what--you can't wuss out with an unhappy childhood or a mean
>mommy or "everybody's doing it".  If it's wrong, it's wrong.

Maybe, it's a generational thing...

I think most young people today (with the exception of those belonging
to the religious right) tend to see the world more in shades of gray
than in the black-and-white morality of older generations.  The world
is a complex place...
--
_______________________________________________________________________________

Brian Yamauchi            Case Western Reserve University
[e-mail]    Department of Computer Engineering and Science
_______________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 20:23:15 GMT
From: Mary Shafer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Von Braun -- Hero, Villain, or Both? (was Re: Controversy over V-2)
Newsgroups: sci.space

On 4 Oct 92 15:18:39, [e-mail] (Brian Yamauchi) said:

Brian> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mary Shafer) writes:

>Furthermore, I think this attitude of yours that nobody's hands are
>clean so people can't be criticized without an understanding of their
>history is in large part responsible for the decline of modern
>morality.  You have to step up and take responsibility for your actions,
>no matter what--you can't wuss out with an unhappy childhood or a mean
>mommy or "everybody's doing it".  If it's wrong, it's wrong.

Brian> Maybe, it's a generational thing...

Brian> I think most young people today (with the exception of those belonging
Brian> to the religious right) tend to see the world more in shades of gray
Brian> than in the black-and-white morality of older generations.  The world
Brian> is a complex place...

It's odd that you'd see it this way--in my circle of acquaintances at
work, the young are the most rigid and intolerant.  Maybe those of us
in our forties have succumbed to apathy, but I just don't see the
burning moral outrage in them that I do in the folks in their
twenties.

Reading the Net tends to reinforce this opinion.

Besides, I didn't say that there weren't shades of grey; I said that
having a good excuse doesn't make something that's wrong (by whatever
standard) right.  You neatly excised my reference to the WW I
reparations levied against Germany not excusing Kristallnacht.  Can
you come up with someone, young or old, who can convince us that the
persecution of the Jews was OK because the reparations were so heavy?

How shady is your gray?  Does anything go if someone can just come
up with some "reason"?  Is it OK to be an ax murderer if your mother
abandoned you?  Is it OK to lie, cheat, and steal to succeed if
everyone else was doing it?  Is it OK to lionize a man who was one
of the most effective servants of a barbaric regime?  Are slave
labor and concentration camps forgivable if everyone was doing it?

But it was still neat to see how they used a bicycle chain to move
the V-2 fins.

--
Mary Shafer  DoD #0362 KotFR NASA Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA
[e-mail]                    Of course I don't speak for NASA
 "There's no kill like a guns kill." LCDR "Hoser" Satrapa, gunnery instructor
                       "A kill is a kill."  Anonymous

------------------------------

Date: 4 Oct 92 16:22:43 GMT
From: Frank Crary <[e-mail]>
Subject: what use is Freedom?
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Andy Cohen) writes:
>However, lets look at the habitable sapce....A complete SSF will have four
>modules. The US lab and hab modules, the ESA module and the NASDA module.
>SSF will also have at least two resource nodes between the modules which
>will contain the primary workstation, the cupola and it's workstation AND
>the centrifuge among other things.  The complete SSF will also have a
>Hyperbaric Airlock almost as big as the resource nodes, a pressurized
>docking tunnel, and a the resource module.  Take these spaces into account
>before you compare with Skylab..

Even taking into account all these modules, nodes, etc... Freedom still
has much less pressurized volume than Skylab. The real queation is
that of _usefull_ volume: Every cubic meter of Freedom will (would) be
used for a tangable purpose. Much of the space in Skylab was waste space
(well, perhaps not waste, but it served only to give the crew extra
elbow room...)

>I've been in both the Skylab mockup at JSC as well as Skylab II at the
>Smithsonean in DC...

I've also seen the copy at the Smithsonian as well as the Freedom mockup
in Huntington Beach. It's very difficult to realize, in gravity, how
much space there was in Skylab: It looks and feels like a fairly small
space, with a _very_ high ceiling. This isn't a problem with Freedom,
because of its shape.

>Yeah...Skylab
>was huge.... especially when you compare it to....Mir.

Actually, Mir (once it is fully expanded) will be roughly the same
size as Freedom, with five full-sized modules (about the size of the
Japanese and European Freedom modules, and larger than the now-scaled-down
American modules) and one half-sized module, slightly larger than the
Freedom nodes.

> Standing
>(instead of floating unfortunately) in the full scale mockup of resource
>node 2 with the cupola provides a very large area which is very similar to
>the area in skylab where the crew exercise equipment was.....

"Large"? The cupola mock up I saw was around 1.5 to 2m across. Admittedly, this
is enough room to put in a treadmill and jog with a _increadble_ view, but
its hardly a "large area."

>With all the
>hatches open, within the US areas alone, the crew will be able to have
>great frisbee games or races....

The modules are _long_ enough, but not wide enough: The clear "hall" in
each module is under 2 meters wide.

>More importantly, as I alluded to in my prior post, a complete SSF provides
>a HUGE structure.  This structure is almost 300 feet long.....Thats a
>football field..... It also has power panels and radiators which stick
>out....  All this structure is essential to provide living spaces, power
>and all the other services needed for direct human activities in Earth
>orbit.....

I'm sorry, but this is totally incorrect: These structures are _not_
necessary. They are necessary if you want an easily expanded station,
or if you want to get the highest possible effeciency out of the solar
panels. But if you simply want to power the living spaces and experiments,
and radiate away the watse heat, you do _not_ need all that structure.


>I welcome ANYBODY to come to our facility in Huntington Beach, CA to see
>our full scale mockups.  We have a complete mockup of half the truss.

Very creatively set up next to a mirror, I might add, so it _looks_ like
the full truss.

>takes up the whole building.  We also have the basic "Race Track" mockup of
>the modules and nodes........

Have they cut down the American modules yet? When I was there, they had
built full sized mockups, then had NASA revise the desing and cut these
modules down to 2/3s size. The mockups has a tape line inside, to mark
the revised length... Also, are there mockups of the European and
Japanese modules? These were also "future projects" when I visited.

(By the way, I found the nodes to be _very_ impressive. Even if Freedom
is never built, given their modular nature it would be worth while to
incorporate the nodes into future station designs.)


                                                 Frank Crary
                                                 CU Boulder

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End of Space Digest Volume 15 : Issue 283
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